How to convert SUNCOM SFS Throttle to USB?Help and advice needed!.

Hi all;

I want to convert SFS Throttle to USB.Is it possible to do it by using Leo Bodnar's new BU0836-X joystick controller?

Until now all that I've completely disassembled/reassembled is a MS Sidewinder stick.How doable it is with my current experience.

After some Q/As with 531 Ghost;here is what we've came up with as a basic guide.

What I have to do is basically remove every original wiring and unused boards inside the throttle except pots(which I'll have to use) and button-hat boards where they are attached.Then hard-wire every single connection to Leo's board individually.

Is it this simple or am I missing something?

Help and advice is appreciated.

Check this out looks like it will answer all you questions
http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=27496&hl=suncom&st=0

If your plan is mode only the SFS throttle (and no SFS+stick combo), just hook ours axis pots (2) into BU0836.



As stated by GranBichus leave their buttons in original circuit - if these work properly - and conect SFS into PC through the PS2 cable for use buttons, and via BU0836 USB cable for use axis.

So, you mantained the original Suncom good programming capacity, by keyboard emulation.

Very ease to to.

Sokol1

Thanks for the replies;

Actually what I want to do is completely convert it to USB.Pots are working fine but other functions are pretty dead.

I will again post later for further questions.

I've converted old interface of my suncom hotas into usb with leo's bu0836.
Every switches had been completely re-wired.
I don't think it would be a hard work if you have done some soldering before. And you should get a soldering remover for removing the original wiring.

Of cource the original suncom programming capabilities are dead now,
but some custom key mappers(like svmapper or joytokey) would be good substitutions.

Here are some photos of mine.

The old circuit at the left-under side doesn't work. It's just a dummy.

Holy sh*t!!

I assume the second pic is the finished circuitry of the rightside throttle grip.right?.I'll ask questions about it later when I post pics with mine and yours side by side.

I'm still studying the hardware of the throttle.At the moment I'm having difficulties reaching the cables and boards of the leftside throttle grip.I think it is impossible to reach them without completely disassembling the throttle grips.How did you do that?.

I disassembled whole parts of the throttle to remove the original wirings and cables and re-wire them. Left grip has no cover to access to the internal parts directly, so removing inside panel should be the only way to access. But this panel can't be removed without disassembling whole throttle parts.

Here are the pics;the first one is the unmodded throttle of mine and the second one is yours modded.

Here is the question;how do we disassemble the throttle grips?where are the access points?

I didn't had much time working on the throttle today so the above question's answer maybe easy but I haven't figured it out yet!.

Finally I've managed to disassemble both of the throttle grips(still with original wiring).It seems that I've undestood the hardware of the throttle.Most of the wiring and boards are removed,before asking more questions about how to connect cables to the BU0836-X(I still didn't ordered it yet)I'll rebuild the throttle to practice.

Here is the reassembled throttle;

Now comes the most critical part which I don't have any practice or knowledge;

What to remove and where to connect?I need everyone's help who has any knowledge and experience.

I need to gather adequate theoretical info before ordering BU0836-X.

There are 6 two-way switches,1 button and 2(am I right?)eight-way hats on the throttle.

There are four pics below;first one is horus0129's modded throttle grip,second one is mine with original wiring,third one is the close-up of the pot,fourth one is Leo's BU0836-X.











Let's start with connecting the pots first,There are two connections as seen in the close-up pic of the pot,where should I connect them on the BU0836-X?Probably to the one of the slots found on the left bottom of the controller starting with GND,X,+5V,right?but how?

There are 4 pins on the pot circuit. You need 3 pins for one axis.
Two pins on each outer side of the pot should be connected to +5v and GND.
One of the pins on each inner side should be connected to input.

for example,

1: +5V
2: input
4: GND

If you swap 1 and 4 or 2 and 3, probably you'll get reversed axis value.

Thank you so much horus0129!.I'll ask more questions about switches and hats later if you don't mind.Your help is greatly appreciated.

Wheew!!After a hard weeks work at last it is weekend;I'll be back with my questions shortly.

Hi horus0129;

There is an additional board on the right throttle grip pic you've posted;do I need something like that?what is the purpose of it?Or can I directly connect switches and the hats individually to BU0836-X?

That is a circuit board for diodes. Those diodes are needed for building a 'key-matrix'.
But the board is just an option for convenience. It's good enough to connect the diodes to the buttons directly.

By the way, I've heard that no diodes are needed for the x version.
Ask about it leo or someone who know that for sure.

According to the official site it has 32 individual inputs.

On the picture you can the a pair of B** and GND contacts for each button.
One is the button's signal input, the other a grounded contact.


Single throw switches would be wired to one 'B contact' and one GND contact.
The double throw switches on the side of the throttle would have the middle contact wired to a GND contact and the outer pins to seperate B contacts.

I don't know how the four way switches are constructed.
If they consist of seperate switches then they would all share a GND contact and have their own B contacts.
It may be that the switches are already wires together.
In that case there would be five contacts, one common ground and four signal contacts.

As stated by Horus, BU0836X dont need diodes, just hook each button in one position into BU.

These two HATS in SUNCON throttle need four butons for each.

HATS are four micro-swicht arranged around paddle.

Eight way HATs combine pressure in two micro-swich at the same time to generate corners (45, 135, 225, 3l5 degress).

Seems that Suncom SFS Throttle need 21 buttons to rewire, not considering MODE buttons in the base.

To simplifique the work, ignore all original boards circuits, leave these boards - if need - to mecanical suport for buttons - just hook each button terminal directly in BU.

IMO - This four MODE buttons hook in Bu0836X plus SVMapper/JoyToKey or similar keyboard emulator software alow up to eight programming MODE for handle buttons. The problem is that they are not very accessible for pratical use...

Sokol1

Thanks for the answers gents;these clears how to connect switches to BU0836-X.I'll look into hat connections in original config and compare them with the pics posted by horus0129 later this week and try to figure out how they work.I'll certainly be back with more questions.

To minimize use of wires and simplify work, you can use one ground terminal for all 32 buttons:

From Leo Bodnar suport forum :

http://www.leobodnar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34



Sokol1

Hi all;I'm back after a break,I simply couldn't find time to work on this project this past week.


Here is an another question;On the below picture there are some resistors on the unmodded grip(right),I circled them with yellow and red.They are removed from horus0129's modded grip(left).Should I remove them too or can they stay in original config?.

These diodes (not resitors) are part of original Suncon circuit and only serves to them. Using BU0836X you dont need these, or another diode.

The best thing to do is remove all original PCBs and de-solder all original wires for buttons and HATs.

Take your BU and hook one or two these 2 way slider and plug BU into your PC and see how this slider work.



After try with one HAT, an see how easy is.

If in original circuit one two way slider have two function (buttons), in BU will have two functions.

IMO - Try to understand how the circuit original works are headache and unproductive.

Sokol1

In my case, all original diodes on the boards and swithes were removed.
It wouldn't be so difficult to remove the diodes if you have solder remover.
So just get rid of them.

they are simple signal diodes, can be cannibalized from pretty much anything. If de-soldering them is too much of a hassle you can just clip their wires off with nail clippers.

Thanks again for the replies and tips;

Today I've ordered my BU0836-X finally.I will report back when I receive my item and regularly update this topic as the project progresses.

Just ordered two BU0836-X myself to re-do a SunCom set (Stick and throttle).



Planning a throttle controller + and Trim box, with a front panel to use up any left over switched and axis.

And on the other the stick plus either a switch panel, or if I have enough switches an MFD panel.

Will detail how I get on as well.

Just an FYI (and I may be wrong), but the diodes are required if you want to allow the device to be able to detect multiple button presses. Without the diodes, the hardware won't be able to decode the full matrix if n number of switches are already closed. This is similar to how the EPIC and some other input modules work.

g.

BU0836X : 32 truly independent digital inputs for buttons and switches.
No matrix, no diodes, no daisy-chaining.



Sokol1

According to the web page it IS a matrix.
http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836/

It's got lines marked "Rows" and "Columns". Sounds like a matrix to me.

The only device that I've seen that doesn't use any matrix at all is the GammaRay boards from Beta Innovations. They've got a single ground point and 256 input pins.

g.

Gene,

Are many models of BU0836:

BU0836 "vanila" - need matrix
BU0836A - same above, but 12 bits - need matrix
BU0836-LC with support for Load Cell (car racing) - need matrix
And
BU0836X solderless version - mentioned in this topic - Dont need matrix.

See: http://www.leobodnar.com/



Sokol1

Ahh, now I get it. He needs better part numbers. *laughs*

BTW, the "vanilla" version can be solderless if you use crimp-on .100 connectors. You don't need a special crimp tool either, you can use a pair of small needle-nose pliers to do the job.

The "solder" version of those .100 connectors I've seen elsewhere in this thread are a royal pain to use because of how difficult they are to solder to, even when using 22GA wire.

The BU0836 is kind of a neat device though. It's kind of a "lite" version of the BI Plasma-MM2.

I wouldn't use the "solderless" edition myself. The reason is the connector choice. By using the type he did, there will be long-term continuity problems, much like what you run into with stereo speakers that use a similar friction attachment. There are screw terminal banks available that will fit on the same pin spacing as what he's using for the "screwless" one he's using now.

I'll have to see where my budget is - the unit would be a good choice for my fighter prototype kit.

g.

Hi to all again;

After a very long break I'm back into modding my SFS Throttle.My BU0836X arrived about a month ago but due to lack of time I was able to re-solder most of the connections recently.I'm testing the board by connecting the switches and pots.There is no problem in connecting and running the pots and the single buttons but I can't make 2-way switches work by connecting as shown above!.

Any ideas why?.




EDIT:OK!OK! it was me doing it wrong!!.

Everything is ready for reassembly except those damned hat-switches;I can't remove/access that board to solder hat connections which the hat switches are connected.





EDIT:I've figured it out that too,you have to apply a good amount of force to pull out those hats, rest is easy.

It is done finally.I'll post pics later.Everything is working fine and great,dual throttle is simply amazing.

If anyone is going to convert or modify the throttle I'm ready to help.Actually if anyone has the required materials,skill(especially soldering) and the time it is only a days work even if you are not into modding before like me.


Thanks to;

531 Ghost for inspiring me and telling me the basic guidelines of modding.

horus0129,Sokol1,jeroen for their priceless help and spending their time to answer my questions.

Leo Bodnar for BU0386-X.(A bendable version would be good though! )

Thanks to everyone here that gave there advice. When I manage to get a A10 throttle I know I'll have some great help and advice!