[Admin Edit - no insults] They lost my sale. They can stick StarForce up their &*#. I lost a CD-ROM drive to that damn thing. Destroyed. Also had to totally zero out my drive and reload my OS to get my system back. That is what I get for being a good consumer and buying the game. After that I threw the game in trash.

"But, Punisher5555 that was a old version. The new versions are so much better.", you say. BS! You can stick that too. I learned my lesson. Never again with StarForce!!!!!

Bittorrent here I come.

My intention wasnt to insult you Gisen. Let me rephrase:

You have a opinion, i respect your opinion. Unfortunately this opinion is based on internet myths or/and and not knowing stuff.

Well, lets take your statement here: which is not true. There are CPs out there which are unhacked/uncracked. This might be new to you, but yes, they are out there.

Let's get to your STEAM Statement:



1) How is this relevant to SF CP?
2) How is this relevant to SF CP?
3) Depending on the games you play on it, Trackmania Nations is SF protected, go buy it on STEAM.
4) Inserting a DVD once a week is "swap DVDs ALL THE TIME?"

Okay, so for you a DRM is a CP in first place?

To Admin:

Part of a debate is to address the other guys arguments. My intention is not insult somebody else, just to check the facts he is given.

PS: Gisen, could you comment http://www.star-force.com/press_room/news/index.php?news=1922 for us ? Im sure you will find something

I'm actually finding the fact that people feel the need to snipe at others who do not want to buy this product because of Starforce....truly...amazing

If you want to buy the game then do so. Feel free to even say you are. I do not mind one bit.

But I do think the petty sniping simply because someone doesn't want to buy a product because of the copy protection is ludicrous.

Both sides really need to do a little growing up.

I'm not buying BS because it's using Starforce. You are buying it because you don't mind Starforce.

I see no reason why sniping has to be par for the course...I respect your opinion to buy it...I don't see why you can't respect my decision NOT to give Starforce any of my money?

Can you address the other parts of my post? Instead of "fixing" my post, how about we find out some specifics about StarForce that might actually "fix" the situation. Seriously, you guys kill me. I'm beginning to think that if it was SF, it would be something else that would keep you from buying Black Shark.

As for the policy itself, what did you expect? Its COPYWRITE PROTECTION. Do you think they're going to bend over backwards for you when its their job is to make as difficult as possible to crack? LOL! This is really obvious guys. If I make software that tries to prevent people from pirating games, why in the world would I take your complaining at face value? I'm going to want some proof that you have a legitamate problem and you aren't just someone trying to crack my software. Its all very unfortunate, to be sure, since people were obviously having their hardware ruined. However, the whole thing is a conflict of interests. Anyone can see that!

End of the line for me, I won't purchase any product using SF again. For me it's based more on concept than actual problems, after all the negative uproar from the Flaming Cliffs SF on the web, this is purely a lack of tact shown by Eagle Dynamics.

SF did cause problems for me, SHIII was a nightmare until SF support sent me files to disable the check on my version (of course latest patch removes SF for SHIII now).

I already have numerous times, you've only got to read the thread.

So let me get this straight. [Admin Edit - Stop now with the personal comments]

amiright?

I'll take that as a confirmation that you have no desire to know exactly what versions of SF caused the trouble and have chosen to avoid it all together. That is 100% your right to do so, of course. I don't agree with this since I find this irrational, but I do have some understand of why.

I've said multiple times that it is the company itself I have issue with, why you needed further confirmation is beyond me, unless as I suspect you haven't read the thread.

Thanks for that link Groove... looks like Microsoft is in for a world of hurt because, according to the anti-SF crowd's statements, they will never buy another Microsoft product again!

Here's a quote from it, a year old:

"StarForce becomes the Technology partner of Microsoft Corporation and Solution Partner of the new product family

Moscow, Russia - 8 October, 2007. - StarForce becomes a Technology partner of Microsoft Corporation, joins the Microsoft Technology Adoption Program and becomes a Solution Partner of the new Microsoft Software Licensing and Protection Services product.

From now on the market will receive the possibility to protect a wide range of software products using a unique solution consisting of one of the most reliable and flexible protection schema together with one of the best DRM Services. "

"I'm beginning to think that if it was SF, it would be something else that would keep you from buying Black Shark."

I'm beginning to think the same.

Hi,

Stalker: Clear Sky used STARFORCE (latest version) for its protection...

The game was up on multiple torrentsites the day before its release.
Reloaded cracked it and it works flawlessly.

Starforce failed miserably...

i obtained this information from varius forums around the net.

The latest news is that Reloaded are targeting EVERY game that uses starforce.
clear sky being one of the first with many more to come.

Bye.

You'd be wrong then.

What some of the pro- insidious unstable insecure malware (starforce :P) crowd don#t seem to understand is why we don't want to buy games with starforce.

There are two main reasons:
1)fear of hardware problems - which is what most of you seem to be claiming is fixed, and may well be on later versions of starforce. Although this is difficult to tell given

2) The company behind starforce is unethical, anti-competition, obnoxious and generally dodgy. Any news companies post anything about the Starforce controversy and they get hit with threats and lawsuit claims. They try to censor anything negative about them, and have even go so far as to post links to torrent files to *edit* try to - doesn't work :P *edit* ruin companies that are not using their protection. When the earlier versions of starforce were being used that definitely DID cause hardware damage, they wanted customers to pay their own way to come and test it on starforce's own hardware - that they knew didnt have the compatibility issue - before they would admit it.
Since then, anyone who has had problems authenticating with the newer versions gets called a thief by their phone support monkeys when they can't fix it.

The second reason is why I don't buy games with starforce on them.
The hardware issues might be fixed - although they'd certainly still be keeping it quiet if they weren't - but its still installing dodgy unneeded drivers on your machine that make it less secure. Not such a major problem as buying products from scum.

I've read every page. Ever heard of disbelief in what you are reading? I understand, on a basic level, some of the bitterness in these threads, but I still have trouble believing how irrational they are.

For example, you say you don't like the company. Why do you give a flip about the company? They aren't you bank or your credit card company, they're just some obscure CPS company. I see you live in the UK. I live in the US. Are they like some huge company in Britain and Europe? In the US, I had to ask about the EXPANSION to a Russian flight sim, in an equally obscure and almost irrelevant PC gaming market before I eve heard of them. No one uses StarForce over here. In fact, CPS is basically non-existent, except maybe for Steam. Crysis, Oblivion, Warhammer Online, COD4, Hand of God, UT3...all games I've purchased in the past year...zero CPS. A CD key maybe, but no software.

I'm getting the feeling that CPS is mainly a European thing. It would be interesting to see where all the disgruntled people hail from, wouldn't it?

If their product has improved, who cares about the past? I mean, I could understand it if you had some large stake in their business or were emotionally attached somehow. But I assume this isn't the case. You just wanna play the game that has their software as the CSP, right?

Hi,
I am BUYING the English version as soon as it comes out! I want to make that plain and I am not a hacker or cracker, I wish I was that smart. However it has been my experience that anything as good as BS does not stand a chance of not being cracked no matter what kind of protection they use. You will notice the space shuttle sim SSM2007 which has to be activated online and in fact has 2 or 3 hoops I had to jump through to get my legally purchased copy to function-the hackers had it totally cracked within 2 months, not because anyone asked them but because they wanted to try it out and not pay for it I'm guessing or it was a challenge. The more the publisher attempts to protect their program and publicizes it the faster it will be cracked. With the publicity of this sim I give it 2 months max before a unauthorized patch is made for it to run without activation.
The only thing us honest folks can do is support the publisher, if the program is as good as is expected I will probably buy more than one copy and give it as gifts. But anyway, I would not worry about the copy protection it is actually not an issue unless your machine will not run the program because of it.
I am for paying the people who work hard to develop this stuff and not steal it. [Admin edit - we can leave the religious comments out of this thread]

You beat me to my previous post! As for your reasons (reason #2), fair enough. Call me what you like, I really don't give a crap. I've never heard of these people prior to getting Flaming Cliffs. For being the Big Bad Wolf, they sure are obscure and a non-factor everywhere else BUT simulation, apparantly.


I want to reiterate: is SF a big player in Europe? These guys are non-existant in the US. Is copywrite protection software common in Europe? Again, its a very rare thing over here. Most of it takes the form of a CD key.

No it isn't. You just disagree with it and claim I know less than you as an ad hominem attack.

Yet. It is true. There is no such thing as 100% secure. Look it up. That some certain protections have not yet been cracked does *not* mean they are uncrackable. The most secure, holy -of-holies cryptographic cypher used for highest level CIA messages is not unbreakable. This is a fact known to anyone who knows anything about cryptography. The computing power needed to brute force break them is just higher than is feasible.


1) Because it's an alternative to starforce. The steam authentication process, not just the content delivery system, which might be what is confusing you.
2) Because it's an alternative to starforce.
3) You're confusing content delivery with steam authentication. Not the same thing. To quote what someone said earlier "Could you do us all a big favour and stop talking about stuff you obviously have no clue about? "
4) I play more than 1 game = I have to swap DVDs all the time on the ones that require a DVD check. That wasn't specifically about the BS but rather the advantage of Steam over other checks.


[quote]
PS: Gisen, could you comment http://www.star-force.com/press_room/news/index.php?news=1922 for us ? Im sure you will find something
[.quote]
More bad news for the consumers. Starforce is presenting this like they're some sort of special partner when its just a glorified seal of approval.

Hi,

Released Starforced games (Every one of these games is on a wll known pirate ship ALL CRACKED)

Starforce did not protect them...

Info obtained from this website :http://www.glop.org/starforce/

Here's the list of games we are boycotting. If a game is missing of you feel like the list is not complete, please post a topic about it in the forum.

* 32nd America's Cup
* 7 Sins
* Age of Pirates : Caribbean Tales
* Air Conflicts
* American Conquest: Divided Nation
* Ankh
* Anstoss 4
* ArmA: Armed Assault (not in UK)
* Bandits: Phoenix Rising
* Bet on Soldier
* Beyond Divinity (English versions now SF-Free with patch v1.49, but does NOT apply to Australian or other language versions)
* Black Mirror
* Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
* Blitzkrieg 2
* Blitzkrieg: Rolling Thunder
* Breed
* Brian Lara International Cricket 2005
* Brian Lara International Cricket 2007
* Brigade E5:New Jagged Union
* Broken Sword 3: The Sleeping Dragon
* Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood
* Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth
* Castle Strike
* Chaos League
* Chaos League: Sudden Death
* Chrome Specforce
* City Life
* Codename: Outbreak
* Cold War
* Colin McRae Rally 2005
* Colin McRae DIRT (demo)
* Cossacks II: Napoleonic Wars
* Crazy Frog Racer
* Cross Racing Championship 2005
* Curious George
* Curse: The Eye of Isis
* Cycling Manager 3
* Cycling Manager 4
* D-Day
* Dawn of Magic
* Dead to Rights
* Demonic Speedway
* Desert Rats vs Afrika Korps
* D.I.R.T Origin of the Species
* Diver Deep Water Adventures (SF v4.70.4.15)
* Domination
* Dreamfall
* Ed, Edd and Eddy - The Mis-Edventures
* Emergency Fire Response
* Enigma: Rising Tide
* Etherlords II
* Fire Chief
* Fire Department
* Freedom Force vs The Third Reich
* Gangland
* Garfield
* Gene Troopers
* Gooka: The Mystery of Janatris
* GT Legends
* GTI Racing
* GTR: FIA GT Racing Game
* Hammer & Sickle
* Happiness
* Heroes of Annihilated Empires
* Horse Race Manager
* I-Ninja
* Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter
* Journey to the Centre of the Earth
* Keepsake
* Kicker Manager 2004
* Kill Switch
* King Kong
* Knights of the Temple 2
* Korea: Forgotten Conflict
* Kuro No Uta Hime
* L.A. Rush
* LMA Professional Manager 2005
* Lock On: Flaming Cliffs
* Loki
* Mad Tracks
* Medieval Lords
* Micro Machines V4
* Midway Arcade Treasures Deluxe Edition
* Miko X Mono
* Namco Museum 50th Anniversary
* Neuro Hunter
* Nibiru
* Night Watch
* Obscure
* Pac Man World 2
* Pac Man World 3
* Pacific Storm
* Paradise
* Pariah
* Parkan 2
* Pax Romana
* Perimeter
* Perimeter: Emperor's Testament
* Pferdehof - Pferd und Pony
* Pippa Funnell Take the Reins
* Pop Star Academy
* Postal 2: Apocalypse Weekend
* Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
* Pro Cycling Manager Saison 2006
* Pro Rugby Manager
* Psi-Ops
* Pure Pinball
* Rally Championship Xtreme
* Restricted Area
* Revolution
* RHEM 2 : La Cite Interdite
* Ricky Ponting International Cricket 2005
* Rise & Fall: Civilizations at War (NDA Beta Version)
* Runaway: A Road Adventure
* Rush For Berlin
* Sacred Plus
* Scrapland
* Second Sight
* Silent Hunter 3
* Silent Storm
* Silkolene Honda Motocross GP
* Singles 2 : Triple Trouble
* Singles : Flirt Up Your Life
* Sniper Elite
* Soldiers Heroes of World War 2
* Sommerspiele 2004
* Space Rangers 2
* SpellForce 2
* Splinter Cell 3: Chaos Theory
* Stalker: Clear Sky
* Star Wolves
* Star Wolves 2
* Steel Saviour
* Still Life
* Street Racing Syndicate
* Sudeki
* SuperPower 2
* Syberia II
* Taito Legends 2
* The Ant Bully
* The Fall : Last Days of Gaia
* The Moment of Silence
* The Stalin Subway
* The Suffering: Ties That Bind
* The Westerner
* TOCA Race Driver 2 : The Ultimate Racing Simulator
* TOCA Race Driver 3
* Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six : Lockdown
* Torrente 3
* TrackMania
* TrackMania : Power Up !
* TrackMania Nations
* TrackMania Original
* TrackMania Sunrise
* TrackMania Sunrise eXtreme
* Traitors Gate 2: Cypher
* Two worlds
* Ubersoldier
* UFO: Aftershock
* Universal Combat: A World Apart
* Universal Combat Gold
* V8 Supercars 2
* V8 Supercars 3
* Virtual Skipper 3
* Virtual Skipper 4
* Vivisector
* War on Terror
* Wildlife Park
* Wildlife Park 2
* Wintersport Pro 2006
* World Racing 2
* World War I
* World War II: Frontline Command
* Worms 4: Mayhem
* XIII
* Xpand Rally
* Xpand Rally Xtreme
* Xuan-Yuan Sword 4

Note: work in progress, this list is not comprehensive.
Released Starforced software

Starforce is hitting the software market. Avoid getting one of those if you like to be able to do some backup of your legally bought software

* Lunar Map Pro
* Super Architect 3D Platinum
* Web 2 Date

Un-Starforced games

The games listed below do not have Starforce included anymore. The editor of the game released an official patch to remove the Starforce protection, and thus fixed all the problems related to Starforce. Thanks to your support everywhere ! Keep spreading the word !

* Area 51
* Heroes of Might and Magic V
* Codename: Panzers - Phase One
* Codename: Panzers - Phase Two
* FlatOut 2
* Restaurant Empire
* Sacred Underworld
* The Fall: Last Days of Gaia
* X2: The Threat
* X3: Reunion

Whilst SimHQ is doing the right thing in allowing us the right to discuss the starfoce issue,
Every1 against SF should join this websites forum and let people know your feelings about this malicious and harmful cp system.

Remember these titles do not give you any warning on the box or packaging about starforce.

Bye.

I have the first Stalker, collectors edition, steel case... I was looking forward to this one too. When I found out about the starforce, I didnt even bother to buy, not even to pirate it if anyone is wondering about that.

I will only buy starforced games if I'm cornered like an animal, Flaming Cliffs is one example of that. With the most recent simulators, including the old but venerable EECH and its mods, I can live without BS until some other company creates a simulator on the same standards.

They could learn from stardock, no copy protection whatsoever, even starforce got so angry that one of its employees actually published various torrent links for the Galactic Civilizations II. Guess what? It was one of the most sold games! I even bought one and enjoyed it 100%!
Sins of a solar empire! no copy protection... I bought as soon as it came out and, hell they sold a lot, Collectors edition was well worth the money!

In my opinion, it is the best strategy game out there, Sins of a solar empire, if anyone wants to try it. ( http://www.sinsofasolarempire.com/ )

Big names are actually opting for the stardock publishing ways, they have a system similar to steam and the guy who made supreme commander is making DEMIGOD with them... releasing...without copy protection!

EDIT:
if anyone is interested to read this: http://blogs.ign.com/Stardock_Games/2008/01/29/78711/