Hi guys,

I noticed there is a feature where you can blip the rotary planes since they really didnt have "throttles" per se in real life. I just tried a neuport 11 and it seems like it has a throttle. Is it basically the "honor" system? How do I know which plane had a throttle and which one I should be blipping? It would be cool to have an option for the different engine systems. Could be a lot of programming work, though.

Great game! My last game of this era was red baron 3d.

All aircraft in WOFF have normal throttle response, rotary or in-line engines. It's set that way to give you the option of using keystrokes or a dedicated throttle to control engine power.

With rotary engine aircraft, the throttle was effectively either off or at full power. The blipping of the engine momentarily cut the power, to allow for less power.

The WOFF blip switch gives you this option.

To fly a rotary powered aircraft as it would have been, set the throttle to maximum then blip it to cut power when needed, such as when landing.

You basically have the choice to fly rotary aircraft realistically or not - the choice is yours

Cool. When you are on flights with AI rotary aircraft, do they run full throttle the entire time?

They will, unless their pilots blip the engine to reduce power.

Remember:
For realistic rotary engine control - Once you start the engine (Key E) set the throttle to maximum power (key stroke 9 or 0) or if you have a dedicated throttle move to max. Then leave it there for the entire flight. When you want to reduce power momentarily, blip the throttle (key stroke B) and the engine revs will drop off. Leave it too long though and you're engine may not start up again (as it was in real life).

Otherwise control your throttle (like an in-line engine) by moving your dedicated throttle or by selecting 1 (min) to 0 (max) on the keyboard.

Well, from what I've been reading regarding these engines (rotary) that's a bit of a simplistic way of describing and even simulating the way that a rotary engine actually worked.

From what I read and while it's true that rotary engines didn't have what is called a conventional "throttle" like the ones found in in-line engines (one of the reasons was the lack of a carburetor) there were ways to control a rotary engine other than 'full power' or 'no power'. One of these ways was regulating a fuel valve which regulated the fuel flow into the engine - This while not a throttle like we know it did give some "throttle-like" control to the engine (less fuel = less power while more fuel = more power) but of course this sort of control was much more limited than a true throttle, of course.

There were also other more advanced Monosoupapes rotary engines that something like 2 blip switches:
A Monosoupapes engine had 9 cylinders but some of more advanced engines of these type has 2 blip switches where one of them would cut 3 cylinders while the other blip switch cut 6 cylinders thus giving something like a 2/3 or 1/3 power respectively.


So and due to this I still prefer to use the throttle with every aircraft in WOFF because in fact there was more control for these rotary engines than simply an "off" or "full power".

Guess that the more "purists"/hardcore simmers could also try to use the mixture control to have a more, better and realistic control over rotary engines (other than simply "off" or "full power"). I've tried this and it actually works very similarly to what would be in reality.


Here's some more info regarding rotary engines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosoupape_engine

Yeah, this is why the FAQ's say that you can have the engine on 100% (0) or off, or on some rotaries (e.G. Gnome) you could "throttle" them down to about 3/4 (7), half (4) or idling (1). So you actually just use the numbers 0, 7, 4 and 1 and blip it if necessary. But using the throttle lever as it is, is your choice, but it's not how it was. For those who want to blip it's easiest to leave the engine on 100% and blip it down. No throttle lever. In real even on those rotary engines which had the possibility to cut it down to half etc. pilots didn't necessarily used it because it was quite a fiddling while flying and the danger to cut it down completely or ignite it was there. So many left it on 100% (0) and simply blipped it down, job done. No throttle lever.

Can't remember which of my books with well known Pup and Camel pilots describing how they flew the aeroplanes, have accounts stipulating they are often at a cruise setting to conserve fuel. At about 75 to 80% throttle if I remember correctly. So it wasn't always 'all or nothing' with only a blip switch to control speed and revs.

There were several different types of rotary.

Irc the early Gnome type was basically on or off, you had a single fuel adjustment but running lean caused over heating so basically it was 100% all the way. Later a variable cylinder selector system was added to limit power when needed.

Clergets and Le Rhones had an air lever and a fuel lever. They could be manipulated to give a good range of RPM, almost like an in line engine throttle.

Confusingly the early Oberursels in planes such as the Eindecker were copies of he Gnome so had no rpm adjustment, later Oberursels were Clerget copies so had the air fuel lever system and so variable rpm settings.

With later high power rotaries blipping at high power settings could cause stress damage, as well as excess unburnt fuel cascading out of the cylinders. It wasn't a great idea.

That's about the limit of my knowledge, I'm quite happy for others who know more to correct me if that's wrong

Many of the questions relating to issues of mixture and throttle control for both stationary and rotary engines were discussed in OFF Phase 3, and Shredward's OFF Historical Archive has information that is just as pertinent to WOFF now: see 'Control of Rotary Engines' in http://combatace.com/topic/37648-great-war-historical-archive/

Only the early Gnome engines were truly On/OFF, with engine speed controlled by use of a blip switch. There are very few aircraft in OFF or WOFF that would still have had one of these - the early Morane Parasol L had the 80 hp Gnome, but I think by 1915 most would have been fitted with the 80 hp Le Rhone.

The 100 hp Gnome Monosoupape (DH2)had a fuel regulator, but no throttle.

Le Rhone, Clerget and Bentley had a carburetor with both a throttle lever and a fuel regulator, but these had to be adjusted independently. These engines could be throttled back to a fast idle of around 600-800 rpmin the air (about '3' or '4' on the WOFF keyboard for most engines?), and the pilot would come to know (or mark on the throttle quadrant) the throttle and mixture lever setting for fast idle, for cruise (about 7 or 8 on the WOFF keyboard) and full throttle for continuous running (0 on the WOFF keyboard). Blipping would be used either for taxiing or for an engine-on landing (after the throttle/mixture levers had already been reduced to a fast idle), as using the blip switch on full power put a lot of strain on the engine and was discouraged. Landings were often made engine-off, by switching off the fuel supply and gliding, the advantage of this being that re-opening the fuel supply and the windmilling of the prop would start the engine again, whereas overuse of the blip switch or use of the magneto switch could flood the engine with fuel leading to a rich cut or fire.

The early Oberursel rotaries of the Fokker E.III, although very similar to the Gnome were not direct copies. They had at least a fuel regulator control, though probably not a throttle lever, so control of the engine was probably similar to that of a Gnome Monosoupape (although they were not monosoupapes). Later Oberursels (those used in the Fokker Dr.1) were based on the Le Rhone design, and were controlled in the same way (see paragraph above).

Concise... cheers

The question remains:

How to realistically fly say, a Sopwith Camel in WOFF?

The blip function in WOFF is rather simple at the moment. It is not yet set with different characteristics for different rotary engine types. But using it is by far more realistic than not to use it or by using the throttle lever. Don't use the throttle lever at all. Just use the number keys 1, 4, 7 and 0 and use the blipswitch to regulate your speed or your landing etc.

Can't you just enrich or lean mixture as needed to maintain a certain speed in lieu of a dedicated thruster? I'm flying an airfield attack mission right now and have been doing that + blip in combination to maintain formation. It's actually a lot more fun to fly this way than using my HOTAS thruster, I basically feel like I'm going to crash at any minute!


EDIT: Actually, I got about 3/4 of the way to Douai flying the way described above, when all the sudden my engine started making a terrible clatter and couldn't get up to speed. It never died or anything, so I was able to fly back and put her down at a nearby field. Debrief said I was moderately damaged, was it my fault?

Wow, amazing knowledge in this thread. Thanks guys.

I wonder if blipping the motor like that caused the damage?

Yea, I don't know. I just had the same problem on a balloon busting mission, but I didn't really tinker with the mixture too much, I mostly just blipped and did the 7/4/1 bit. Lost engine power over the Line and fell behind my flight, almost became dinner for a hungry Dr.I pilot.

Bit of a dangerous bit of experimenting. Will take the Camel up for some free flights somewhere where I won't die and see what happens.

"Naval Eight -- A History of No. 8 Squadron RNAS" advises to blip only when the throttle is back (least RPMs) to avoid damaging the engine:

"DON'T Blip except when throttled right down. It is extremely bad flying and puts unnecessary strain on the whole machine."

Naval Eight flew Sopwiths through WWI: Strutter, Pup, Triplane, Camel and for a few days the Snipe. All rotary engines.

Since that was in their standing orders, I suspect that's how they really did it.

Maybe so, but what if what Creaghorj mentioned is true, that there are dangers involved in using some of the lesser blip functions? What are the odds that pilots did just blip all the time in rotaries, regulations be damned? I just successfully blipped my way on a 94 mile round trip with nary an engine issue, which I was having earlier doing the other methods. A lot of things CAN be dangerous, but maybe we should just blip anyway?

This is an interesting discussion btw.

"The question remains:

How to realistically fly say, a Sopwith Camel in WOFF?"

Camels mostly had Clerget, Le Rhone or Bentley engines (some had monosoupapes, but were mostly trainers I think).

I would suggest - use Creaghorn's recommendation. Keyboard '4' for fast idle, '7' for cruise, '0' for full throttle. For engine speeds in between these 'coarse' settings use the mixture control function (the fuel regulator lever was called the 'fine adjustment' for this reason). For landing, either throttle down to '4' and then blip the engine, or use the 'mixture idle cutoff' (Ctrl+Shift+F6, I have this mapped to a joystick button)and glide in (in theory, 'Mixture Full Rich' Ctrl+Shift+F7 should then restart the engine if you need to go around again). IN COMBAT, blip when you like

Blip switch was there because rotaries were difficult to idle at a slow engine speed (c. 300 rpm, or about '1' on the keyboard), probably due to 'breathing' or distribution problems (fuel/air mixture not being distributed evenly enough to the cylinders when the engine was spinning at low rpm).

In OFF Phase 3 we would use the Magneto Decrease and Magneto Increase functions, but having a dedicated blip switch function in WOFF makes it all much easier.

AFAIK the mechanical breakdown feature of WOFF is random, moderated only by the engine type/make but not by engine management (?). If so, blipping or excessive leaning should have no effect on this in game, but who knows... might be best if the devs. don't answer that one, and keep us guessing

So... yea, I don't know man, I think Blip messes things up. I was flying with my squadron, took off and maintaining formation using blip, then I started getting engine trouble again, then my PLANE STARTED ON FIRE.

I'm now convinced that blip is the devil.

It was fatal by the way! Yep. Burned up over my aerodrome before I could even get a chance to make an emergency landing.

So, in the interest of WOFF science, I think I should document what happened in more detail.

1) During take off, I set throttle to full and blipped the engine until my turn for take off, then took off. No problems.

2) Formed up on my leader, maintained formation. No problems.

3) Mixture of 0/7/4 to hold formation, occasional usage of blip. No problems.

4) Engine started to sputter and cough. I drop formation and turn back for Clairamais. Some problems.

5) RPMs dropped below 1000, hovered from 800 or so. Engine coughing. I'm over St. Omer and almost to Clairamais, but as close to the aerodrome as I am, I'm beginning to realize I'm not going to be able to get there and start looking for a field to land in.

6) RPMs drop below 600. Speed's decreasing rapidly. I'm now coming in for my emergency landing. Many problems.

7) RPMs hit 0. Sopwith Camel sets on fire. WHAT THE HELL, SO MANY PROBLEMS.

8) Burning Sopwith Camel crashes into a fence. No problems now or ever again because I'm dead.


I do believe that makes me the first person to blow my own engine up in WOFF. I'm like a pioneer! BOW TO ME MORTALS. Or something.