If anyone is in the know, and allowed to meantion...

I played SB Gold for a while, but never once opened up the editor, but now... while I'm waiting to finally get my copy of SB Pro PE, I'm researching and planning my first set of missions.

Q. Is there an Iraq map included? (I would of thinked that the military would of request that map)

Q. If so, besides just desert... is Baghdad modeled? (including the 2 main highways, th palace and parade ground area.)

Q. I do believe I've seen screens of bunker placements etc etc, but can that be confirmed? and can enemy infantry be placed by the dozens in concentrated areas?

I did find this excellent site, which I'll have to refer to alot once i get started...
http://www.steelbeasts.com/scenariodesign//index.htm

The reason I ask... the first series of missions is based on actual events that the US troops, especially the armor platoons/companies, had to go through... mostly based on the book by David Zucchino, titled "Thunder Run", (which by the way a few of my Friends and 2 co-workers are mentioned in.)

So I'm planning it all out now, gathering resources and information... but kinda hard when you don't really know what the game, opps sorry, simulation, can model.

I thought about doing it in OFP, but SB Pro PE would fit better I would think.

Oh dear... pls tell me what SimHQ Land Combat Editor means in your signature m8! I guess you are not the person that does the review of SB Pro PE? If yes I will read it with great interest...I think.

Cheers!

Yes I plan on doing one, (unless someone on staff takes it with more experience and know how) and NO you don't have to read it.

Land and armor are too different sections here at SimHQ... (I'm land, Fran is armor).

I may not be qualified enough in Armor, but I feel I'm adequate enough for the land part.

Magnum,
A LOT of folks would be interested in this in OFP as well. It might be a great way to figure out a lot of stuff. I would suggest, if possible, using the FFUR stuff. I might be talked into helping as well... I have RL experience in Combat Arms and really dislike the BS some folks put into their missions.

Of course, it would be awesome to see this in SB Pro PE as well. Maybe SSnake could be cajoled into providing a pre-release copy to start mission work...???

Hi Magnun,

Q. Is there an Iraq map included? (I would of thinked that the military would of request that map)
A. No, a "real" Iraq map is not included. But you can download some kind of desert-modification and make some kind of "looks like and feels like iraq" map very easily. If you need a link to the desert mod I can search for it. BTW, there is a very good scenario about the battle of 73 easting (2nd gulf war).


Q. If so, besides just desert... is Baghdad modeled? (including the 2 main highways, th palace and parade ground area.)
A. No (see first answer)

Q. I do believe I've seen screens of bunker placements etc etc, but can that be confirmed? and can enemy infantry be placed by the dozens in concentrated areas?
A. The only buildings in SB1 are the infamous "barns". Of course they come with lots of different textures. But no real bunkers and stuff like that.

Hope I could help.
cu
Jens

thx for the answers... but I don't have SB1 anymore, was never able to get it working on my new computer (3 computers ago) so gave it away. (wasn't really into armor sims that much when SB1 was out... I know, shame on me.) lol

My questions were related to the "upcoming" SB Pro PE.

Steel, Ya I was checking and testing it out with OFP FFUR desert mod, I've made some missions in OFP, just never in SB1... Just don't know if I should wait for the next generation like Armed Assault or SB Pro PE...

@Magnum: Ah, sorry. Didn't saw that. Well, concerning maps Ssnake told us in the official forums, that the following maps will be included (11/30/05)

* 29 Palms
* Adur Valley
* Beedenbostel
* CMTC Hohenfels (my favorite!)
* Ft Hood
* Ft Knox (preliminary version)
* Ft Polk
* Grand Canyon (more of a demo terrain than of actual usefulness)
* NTC (Ft. Irwin)
* Revingehed (southern Sweden)
* Suzon Valley
* Swan river valley
And of course you can use all existing SB1 maps, and brush them up

So, as far as I know (Ssnake please correct me if I'm wrong) there is no real Iraq map. But I'm sure we can make those by ourselfs.
Concerning the bunkers I'm not sure. But there are much more different type of buildings in SB Pro PE than in SB1. So I'm sure there might be some type of bunkers as well.

Jens

Thanks... one way or the other...either with Armed Assault or SB Pro PE, I'm making my dream mission set... lol... all depends on what works it best... or both.

Magnum,
out of those maps there are several that might work. of course we will need to see them first.

If you want to coop, i would be glad to help. i can write some pretty good OPORDS.

i don't know for sure, but i will bet missions from OFP would be fairly portable to AA. can probably be dug out from the BIS forums.

I was tempted to create scenarios according to Thunder Run, but decided against it since, from a pure point of view of tactical challenge, there was hardly one. Drive along a highway and blast away any resistance that you meet. That's bordering on the arcade.

The challenge was to keep the logistical support intact - with highly vulnerable fuel and ammo trucks. This means that you'd mostly watch a battalion of tanks drive along a highway and that your prime mission would be to direct the trucks. To me, this sounds like some, uh, underwhelming experience. From a purely cineastic point of view it could be awesome, but to make it an awesome cineastic experience one would need to invest a lot of work to replicate the highway and adjacent terrain, and it seems like the value of such a scenario doesn't match the amount of work required to make it a gripping experience.

Another point is that our infantry actually is competent. We have yet to develop a class of fighters who employ "spray & pray marksmanship". Again, their instructional value seems limited.

Ya I was wondering the same thing... it would be based on the missions conducted in the book, but artist adventure would have to be implemented... but I was thinking of some of the obstacles that they had to overcome like the 2 BMP's hiding in the would line, the mining of the road where if it wasn't cleared first with cover fire, the mission would fail...

Sure it wouldn't be exciting as a battle conducted by doctrine, but with the right introduction, back ground story, and presentation...the "history lesson" could be fun...

I like missions based on real world events, even if not the big butt battles you would see in a WW3 conflict, or the cold war turning hot.

I like missions where you can re-live what the troops did in real life, and learn that battle... but like you said, the AI would have to be stupid... like the Iraq soldiers were in that string of battles.

I'll still toy with it and see, if I don't like the missions when done, then I won't release.


BUT SSnake, I am kinda surprised that no military has request an Iraq map or the capitol itself, since SB Pro PE is based on what military's have requested.

Thx for the info thou.

Well, you see, the classroom version of Steel Beasts Pro has a feature to import existing terrain databases that the topographical services of most armies have ready. So, the military already has the necessary maps - they just need to port them over to SB Pro which is a pretty straightforward process. Therefore we just don't need to provide them with maps made by us.

It's primarily copyright reasons and associated license fees that make it impractical for us to include maps of interesting locations. Data from the US Geological Survey are free of charge, so there is a natural disposition to pick elevation data from the US. Other sources provide vector data, and then there's free sattelite imagery that our own map designers use to create the maps for SB Pro PE.

Generally, our position is that few but detail-rich maps are better than a large number of different maps, hastily patched together. And as long as our computer control algorithms are not tailored for MOUT situations, we rather concentrate on rural area. Once that we have taught infantry to utilize buildings, we're probably going to adapt our selection of maps as well. Fortunately, SB Pro and SB Pro PE are designed for regular upgrades from the start. We can make new features available as soon as they have reached a state of sufficient maturity.

There will be a map of Jalibah Airfield done in time for release that stretches all the way up to the river. Theres a decent sized city/town on which you can do some urban fighting and still keep the framerate high. The AI isnt tuned for street fighting so the results with some vehicles and troops can be inconsistent.

As far as Baghdad - there isnt a map done for it. The idea of doing every single building by hand for a city of that size is not appealing. ;-)

There will be a bunch of maps on there, but many are in varying states of completion. I'll try to post a list when we are wrapping up.

Has there been included yet some sort of attached condition "this unit exists if..." tied in with the the context sensitive menus so that all enemy positions are not simply known or otherwise deduced from previous outings in a scenario? In addition to that I can conceive of a simulated airdrop at an arbitrary location:

"This (BMD-2) exists if 0 < random number X1 < 50 AND Mission Time > 5:00

Sure.

It's called "Spawn, if..." in the mission editor (unit context menu/Options/...).

There's going to be a demo scenario to show how such an airdrop could be implemented (including random air drift for the paratroopers that will appear on the ground).

jalibahV2.raw
Location_Name = Jalibah Airfield, Iraq
Height_Map_Name = jalibahV2.raw
Height = 59.926
Width = 59.926
UTM_S = 3364619
UTM_W = 629488
UTM_N = 3424545
UTM_E = 689414
Latitude = 30 24 24 N
Longitude = 46 20 53 E